YT Discussion w/ Mainland Chinese longkaili2904 why Liren’s list of role model players is stupid. ( 2023May )

Series : Good guys vs Bad guys – Table of Contents


Duplicate

Title: Liren Ding’s stupid list of role model players: Magnus Veselin & Garry, not Wesley So Vlad & Bobby?! ( 2023May28 )

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlNsFKeq-iE

Community Link 1: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoWCbgUHXCVrBppZyjLO3BQ/community?lb=Ugkx93xpjtpN_jDM9XnHY6jgW9PM9yLyAGJF

Community Link 2: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx93xpjtpN_jDM9XnHY6jgW9PM9yLyAGJF


Notes:

  1. I say ‘mainland’ because I’m a dual citizen of Hong Kong & the Philippines.
  2. This is the person: https://youtube.com/channel/UChMVp1TgRstCv_2b_do2y_A aka longkaili2904 aka 李龙楷
  3. This is about: Liren Ding’s stupid list of role model players – Veselin & top 2 WCCs Magnus & Garry – why not Vlad & top 2 WFRCCs Wesley, Bobby ? ( 2023Apr ) and Good guys vs Bad guys in chess based on Liren Ding’s stupid list of role model players ( 2023Apr ) and Team Hans vs Team Magnus ( 2022Sep )

longkaili2904 on 2023May28 : ‘How is his list stupid? Kasparov and Carlsen are like the best players ever.’

Me on 2023May28 : (bunch of stuff)

longkaili2904 on 2023May28 :

  1. Why would I think ur a traitor cause you are from hk… I legit don’t care. I just like Ding Liren cause they way he plays and his style. I like nepo too he is great but he doesn’t calculate as deep as Ding therefore I like Ding a bit more. You can be a citizen of the fuqing moon what does that have to do with anything.
  2. I mean yeh objectively Kramnik is the better player but maybe Topalov just inspired him with some opening. I don’t think it is stupid I would’ve just like him to go into more detail why he chose Topalov. Like he mentioned Pons because how he played the French defense so much and inspired Ding. Like in terms of role models its about their influence on you specifically no choices are dumb I guess. I think you jump to conclusions too much things aren’t always just as black and white.
  3. but like Ding is a pretty honest player…same with Anand. Hikaru is also a 960 world champion why do you never mention him.
  4. Can you relax bro. Not everything is about the Jews. Magnus probs just had a big ego and took it out the wrong way. Also there are so many other American players like Fabi, Nakamura,Kamsky, Shankland that you don’t seem to care about. Why do you have to focus on the “Jew” thing.
  5. Why do you keep saying Fischer would agree with you. Just argue your points. Fischer is number 1 dead, number who cares what he thinks. Guy was a legend of a player but his opinions on shit is fucked. You can consider So as a WC as much as you want but at the end of the day the more recognized title is the Classical Title and that is with Carlsen and then Ding. So is an amazing payer and rightfully the 960WC which is now with Nakamura but he wasn’t the WC because he didn’t win in the format. Who is a stronger player depends on what format. Yes 960 is more creative but that doesn’t mean classical don’t take skill. So is stronger at 960 and Carlsen is stronger at classical. Doesn’t mean Carlsen wasn’t the WC.
  6. Yes So is better at 960 and 960 is more creative. However computers still destroy humans at 960, just as they do with classical. Classical has more memorization but there is still skill there. You can have the entire chess database with you and you still can’t win all the games if you don’t know how to play chess well.
  7. Bobby has terrible opinions just as Gary has his small dick energy (Deep Blue and Polgar). At the end of the day its just their game we care about. The arbiters are the ones who make the judgement about cheating not players not me not you. If an issue is raised the arbiters will judge, if no issue is raised and the players themselves didn’t view it as cheating then you should chill out too.
  8. Okay even if Fischer would beat Kasparov at 960 so what. Gary focused on classical not 960. You can’t get a sprinter and say you can’t do a marathon. Gary is the Classical WC. No one said he would be the 960 WC. Magnus is obviously talented or why would he beat So in classical. You can’t say Usain Bolt is talentless just cause he can’t win a 100km marathon. People have different focuses and you should try and learn that people are different and just cause Carlsen lost at 960 doesn’t mean he isn’t great at classical chess.

Annotation : Everything is about the Jews. ( I mean this is a non-(anti-semitic) way. But maybe I’m like Putin. Lol. ) ( 2023May )


Me 2 weeks later on 2023Jun12 :

  1. ‘I just like Ding Liren cause they way he plays and his style. I like nepo too he is great but he doesn’t calculate as deep as Ding therefore I like Ding a bit more.’
  2. ‘You can be a citizen of the () moon what does that have to do with anything.’
    • 2.1 – I wouldn’t fault Aryan Tari for baselessly siding w/ Magnus over Hans, but I would fault Hikaru for baselessly siding w/ Magnus over Hans, particularly if (who knows really?) it’s part a malicious conspiracy to defame Hans. See what I mean?
    • 2.2 – I wouldn’t fault Daniil for being a 2nd of Nepo in the 2021 WCC, but I would fault Daniil for being a 2nd of Magnus in the 2021 WCC. See what I mean?
    • 2.3 – When Magnus cheated Anish, Alexandra Kosteniuk, Alireza, Danya & Nepo, Magnus was not necessarily a traitor just a cheater. When Garry cheated Judit, Garry was both a cheater and a traitor. See what I mean?
  3. ‘I mean yeh objectively Kramnik is the better player but maybe Topalov just inspired him with some opening. I don’t think it is stupid I would’ve just like him to go into more detail why he chose Topalov. Like he mentioned Pons because how he played the French defense so much and inspired Ding. Like in terms of role models its about their influence on you specifically no choices are dumb I guess. I think you jump to conclusions too much things aren’t always just as black and white.’
    • 3.1 – Vallejo not Pons is the last name. Not that I care about Paco. But anyway it’s not about who’s better in playing but who’s better morally. Veselin is evil. Vlad never cheated. But yeah Vlad is better in playing too. LOL!!!!
  4. ‘but like Ding is a pretty honest player…same with Anand.’
    • 4.1 – Well Liren never cheated but is indirectly supporting cheating by naming Magnus, Garry & Veselin as role models.
  5. ‘Hikaru is also a 960 world champion why do you never mention him.’
  6. What’s your opinion of FIDE’s use of the terms ‘slow rapid’ & ‘fast rapid’ please? This has implications for Wesley So.
  7. ‘Can you relax bro. Not everything is about the Jews. Magnus probs just had a big ego and took it out the wrong way. Also there are so many other American players like Fabi, Nakamura,Kamsky, Shankland that you don’t seem to care about. Why do you have to focus on the “Jew” thing.’
    • Good question.
    • Actually I was focused on Americans 1st and then Jews 2nd.
    • 7A
    • In 2022Sep I made this semi-joke post theory that Magnus was a racist against Americans.
    • Post:
    • Does Magnus Carlsen have something against Americans? Hans Niemann is American, like Wesley So and Bobby Fischer.
    • https://reddit.com/xj8wi6
    • 7B
    • BUT THEN LATER IN 2022OCT SOMEONE TOLD MAGNUS ACTUALLY ADMITTED IN A PODCAST THAT MAGNUS DISLIKES AMERICANS
    • Post:
    • Does Magnus have something against Americans? Re Hans, Wesley, Bobby Fischer, et al. | Initially, this was a joke, but I was told Magnus admitted to generally disliking Americans in podcast ‘Magnus Effect’ episode 2 – ’20 Best Ways to Introduce Yourself’. It’s 1.5 hours long. Can anyone confirm?
    • https://reddit.com/yev3a1
    • 7C
    • AND THEN IN 2022DEC SOMEONE TOLD ME MAGNUS HATES JEWS :
    • Post:
    • Bobby Fischer if alive today would support Hans Niemann over Magnus Carlsen … Apparently not?! | Quote: ‘top brass in chess world is team Jew. … Niemann did cheat … Jewish conspiracy to bring down the gentile who dominated them’ | ‘Non of the Indians are Jews but almost all the Russians are.’
    • https://reddit.com/zs4zpf
    • More here:
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/2023/05/23/bobby-fischer-if-alive-today-would-support-hans-niemann-over-magnus-carlsen-apparently-not-quote-top-brass-in-chess-world-is-team-jew-niemann-did-cheat-jewish-conspiracy-to-bring-d/
    • Videos:
    • https://youtube.com/watch?v=sl-P3vCZFqA
    • https://youtube.com/watch?v=UFUHa27kiJc
    • https://youtube.com/watch?v=5PWkHEHVBPM
    • That person is anti-semitic told me that there’s a Jewish conspiracy against Magnus. Of course I disagree w/ that. But the point is I think that Magnus THINKS there’s a Jewish conspiracy against Magnus.
    • 7D
    • YOJIMBO_KING told me in 2023Feb ‘A racist can always spot another racist’
    • Lol!!!
    • 7E
    • Later in 2023May / 2023Jun I checked the tournament results of the 2022 Sinquefield Cup and yeah Hans beat 2 non-Americans Shak & Magnus (but Shak is Jewish) and then lost to 2 Americans Fabi & Wesley So. See? So maybe Magnus accused Hans because Magnus thinks there’s an American conspiracy (but not a Jewish conspiracy) against Magnus. How else can Hans cheat OTB as black in classical vs reigning 5x classical WCC w/o help from Chris Bird?!?!?!?!?
    • I got the idea from 1 – the anti-semitic person in 2022Dec and 2 – some other people in youtube comments who told me that hans after beating magnus, then lost to wesley so.
    • Post:
    • Does Magnus have something against Americans eg Hans, Wesley So, Bobby Fischer? If e believes St Louis’ security but still accuses Hans, then e thinks Chris Bird helped BUT not for AMERICAN Wesley So hence Hans’ loss? Has Magnus played an OTB US-related tournament since (not 2022 WFRCC or chessc*m)?
    • https://reddit.com/141bvd3
    • 7F
    • As for ‘Fabi, Nakamura,Kamsky, Shankland’ – I did mention Fabi & Hikaru.
    • 7F.1 – Magnus said Hikaru is decent. This is a little bit of evidence that shows Magnus’ racism against Americans. But it doesn’t matter now because Hikaru is a traitor to the US. Look: After Hikaru betrayed the US / Hans for Magnus, Hikaru was rewarded w/ the 2022 WFRCC, w/c was obviously rigged vs Wesley So to favour Magnus & Hikaru. You can tell from the 2019 WFRCC that
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/2023/05/22/classical-9lx-vs-rapid-9lx-in-2019/
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/9lx-stats-classical-vs-rapid-wesley-so-nepo-hikaru-magnus.png
    • 7F.1A – Wesley So does much better in classical.
    • 7F.1B – Nepo is kinda balanced actually.
    • 7F.1C – Magnus does much better in rapid.
    • 7F.1D – Hikaru does much better in rapid.
    • 7F.1E – Actually, Fabi does much better in classical.
    • 7F.2 – Magnus is sore from not being able to beat Fabi in any classical WCC game and in particular losing rating in the 2018 WCC. This helped lead Magnus to be a sore loser to Hans.
    • 7F.3 – Magnus also said the US was ‘buying nerds’ when Fabi changed back from Italy to the US. This shows that Magnus is racist against the US. Magnus thinks that the US is just buying all these nerds to be ‘fake Americans’. Magnus doesn’t think Fabi & Wesley So can even reach 2018 candidates or 2019 WFRCC while being in resp Italy & the Philippines.
    • 7F.4 – I know Gata mainly from the 2013 USCC vs Alejandro Ramirez. So idk if Gata ever had any big encounters w/ Magnus.
    • 7F.5 – I know Sam mainly from the 2018 USCC vs Wesley So. So idk if Sam ever had any big encounters w/ Magnus.
  8. ‘Why do you keep saying Fischer would agree with you. Just argue your points. Fischer is number 1 dead, number who cares what he thinks. Guy was a legend of a player but his opinions on () is ().’
    • Good question. It’s semi-trolling kinda like to ‘bait’ people to do ad hominem attacks on me, just as I’m making appeal to authority arguments against them but of course the main ‘bait’ is for them to discuss in the 1st place. Like Cunningham’s Law. If I say ‘Bobby Fischer would agree w/ them’, then it will rouse their anger for them to say ‘That may be true but then in that case you are both wrong and insane!’ or something.
    • Also it will make them really think ‘Hmmm…Bobby “was a legend of a player”, so am I really going to disagree w/ Bobby when it comes to chess or 9LX?’
  9. ‘You can consider So as a WC as much as you want but at the end of the day the more recognized title is the Classical Title and that is with Carlsen and then Ding.’
    • Who would Bobby Fischer consider WC of 2019Nov – 2023Mar?
    • A – classical WCC
    • B – classical WFRCC
    • C – rapid WCC
    • D – rapid WFRCC
  10. ‘So is an amazing payer and rightfully the 960WC which is now with Nakamura but he wasn’t the WC because he didn’t win in the format.’
    • Wesley So is the classical WFRCC / 960 WC / 9LX WC.
    • Hikaru is the rapid WFRCC / 960 WC / 9LX WC.
    • Wesley So was robbed of the title.
  11. 11 – ‘Who is a stronger player depends on what format. Yes 960 is more creative but that doesn’t mean classical don’t take skill.’
    • and
    • ‘Yes So is better at 960 and 960 is more creative.’
    • and
    • ‘Classical has more memorization but there is still skill there. You can have the entire chess database with you and you still can’t win all the games if you don’t know how to play chess well.’
    • and
    • ‘Magnus is obviously talented or why would he beat So in classical.’
    • This is the point. It’s like this.
    • Classical chess = theory + talent + calculation
    • Rapid chess = theory + talent + intuition
    • Rapid 9LX = talent + intuition
    • Classical 9LX = talent + calculation
    • The only difference between chess & 9LX is THEORY. Skill in chess is defined as a combination of theory & talent. Talent in chess is just talent – how good you are when there’s no theory.
    • Bobby explains it here:
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52UXLpplTw
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/2023/06/04/9lx-creator-bobby-fischer-distinguishes-goat-greatest-vs-mtoat-most-talented-2005/
    • It’s pointless to say Bobby is better than say Morphy or Capablanca because there’s no adjustment for theory. Morphy today might even do badly against like FMs, just because of theory. That has nothing to do w/ Morphy’s ‘TALENT’. So the way to really compare peak Morphy vs peak anyone else is to adjust for THEORY. You compare their TALENT, not their SKILL. How to adjust for theory? 9LX is a way to do this.
    • Now technically Bobby was talking about cross-generations, but I think it applies to the same generation too. You can have any 2 players Ashanti & Bidatz where Ashanti is better than Bidatz in chess, but Bidatz is better than Ashanti in 9LX. You can’t just say chess & 9LX are different formats like completely different & completely unrelated as if they are like chess & shogi / xiangqi / go / baduk / tennis / golf or whatever. It’s quite easy to guess that if Ashanti has no openings that Bidatz is better i.e. Ashanti is BETTER than Bidatz, but Bidatz is more TALENTED than Ashanti.
    • Now let’s get to Magnus. Weirdly, Magnus is known for playing out of book openings & is supposedly the best at endgames. So why isn’t Magnus better at 9LX?
    • Larry Kaufman explains it here
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyXKHeQ7H0c
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/2023/05/28/larry-kaufman-explains-why-magnus-sucks-at-9lx/
    • ‘Magnus doesn’t generally play such great openings, he strives to get the game out of book as early as possible usually. I think the issue here is that his greatest strength is the endgame, but FRC games are much more likely to be decided in the middlegame as the players are on their own so early. That’s probably why he doesn’t shine as brightly in FRC as in Classical chess.’
    • Uhuh, so it’s possible that Magnus is not so highly reliant on theory but that Wesley So & Nepo are just better than Magnus at middlegames in classical and that Hikaru & Nepo are just better at middlegames than Magnus in rapid.
    • Ok so Magnus isn’t talentless after all.
    • Btw I never meant talentless literally. That’s just more bait / semi-trolling. I just meant to say Magnus is highly reliant on theory. I’m leading people to explain how Magnus isn’t highly reliant on theory yet doesn’t do BETTER in 9LX. So far people just keep saying sample size, bad luck, blahx3. Yeah right. Lol. As if any of them would disagree w/ Larry.
  12. ‘So is stronger at 960 and Carlsen is stronger at classical. Doesn’t mean Carlsen wasn’t the WC.’
    • Magnus was the classical & rapid WCC but never the classical or rapid WFRCC. So what I’m doing is arrogantly defining ‘WC’ to be ‘classical WFRCC’ to
    • A – put down Hikaru & Magnus
    • B – put up Wesley So
    • C – bait people into discussion in particular daring them to disagree w/ Bobby Fischer (as I say above etc in (8)).
    • It’s all a matter of definition after all. You could define rectangles to exclude squares or define biscuit differently in the US vs the UK.
  13. ‘However computers still destroy humans at 960, just as they do with classical.’
    • What is your point here? Of course computers do.
  14. ’14 – ”Okay even if Fischer would beat Kasparov at 960 so what.’
    • and
    • ‘Gary is the Classical WC. No one said he would be the 960 WC.’
    • It means Garry (not Gary) sucks compared to Bobby w/o openings. The point of chess at its inception is really compare people human brain vs human brain. Now it is human brain & computer vs human brain & computer.
  15. ‘Gary focused on classical not 960.’
    • and
    • ‘People have different focuses and you should try and learn that people are different’
    • That’s ridiculous. There’s no way to ‘focus’ on 9LX. Remember in 2022 WFRCC Wesley So apparently didn’t understand the generalisation of castling rules in 9LX ? That means in 2019 WFRCC Wesley So hadn’t ‘focused’ on 9LX. Wesley So really just showed up w/o any preparation and dominated classical 9LX. LOL!!!!!!! Pathetic Magnus!!!!!! When there are no openings, we see how much Magnus sucks at middlegames. LOL!!!!!
  16. ‘just cause Carlsen lost at 960 doesn’t mean he isn’t great at classical chess.’
    • This is the point – I suck at both 9LX & chess but I’m not talentless because I’m not a far better chess player than a 9LX player. Magnus is so so so great at chess but sucks at 9LX and therefore is talentless at chess. LOL!!!!
    • Being great is different from being talented. You can be great but not talented. You can even be the greatest player but talentless. Actually perhaps the only way to be talentless is to 1st be the greatest player.
    • The thing is Magnus isn’t talentless DESPITE being so great at chess. Magnus is talentless BECAUSE of being so great at chess.
    • I don’t say Nepo, Fabi, Hikaru, et al are talentless in classical chess. I don’t Nepo, Fabi, Wesley So, et al are talentless in rapid chess. Pretty much only Magnus can be talentless BECAUSE of how great Magnus is. And indeed, Magnus IS talentless. LOL!!!
    • But I think Magnus is on the right path like quitting the classical WCC and now really focusing on talent & middlegames rather than opening theory. Who knows? Maybe Magnus will finally beat Wesley So in even 1 9LX game and maybe beat Nepo or Wesley So in a classical 9LX game.
  17. ‘You can’t get a sprinter and say you can’t do a marathon.’
    • and
    • ‘You can’t say Usain Bolt is talentless just cause he can’t win a 100km marathon.’
    • I don’t really follow other sports / games other than chess, 9LX, chessino & chessboxing. My sibling follows basketball. My mom follows beauty pageants. My dad like many Philippine people follows boxing. (The Philippines has 3 B’s basketball, boxing & beauty pageants. This is partly why Wesley So had to change federations to the US.)
    • But what I understand is that there isn’t really the same kind of talent vs greatness distinction in physical sports as in chess.
    • Check out what Vidit says here:
    • “There’s no preparation. You just like sleep and go and play. I always felt like other physical sports they have this advantage (…) you just warm up your body before you go to the game. But in chess it’s like you prepare, you look at lines (…) but in other sports you just like you get ready mentally more or just warm up a bit go. And in chess960, you can actually do that: (…) Stay sharp and just go. You don’t have to like really check the lines.”
    • https://mathematiciowned.wordpress.com/2023/05/29/9lx-talk-by-fabi-cristian-vidit-ganguly-2022nov-wesley-so-wasnt-a-candidates-wildcard-for-frc-but-fabi-was-a-wfrcc-wildcard-for-chess/
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxIdCEj6_E8
    • Post Title:
    • what is ‘talent’ as opposed to ‘greatness’ in tennis? eg the difference between MTOAT (most talented of all time) and GOAT (greatest of all time)?
    • Post link:
    • https://reddit.com/rcbe0y
  18. oh wait i totally missed something else. good i clicked sort by new comments ‘Bobby has terrible opinions just as Gary has his small dick energy (Deep Blue and Polgar). At the end of the day its just their game we care about. The arbiters are the ones who make the judgement about cheating not players not me not you. If an issue is raised the arbiters will judge, if no issue is raised and the players themselves didn’t view it as cheating then you should chill out too.’
    • JUDIT DID CONSIDER IT CHEATING. GARRY GASLIGHTED JUDIT JUST AS MAGNUS LATER GASLIGHTED NEPO IN 2021 WCC.

The incident was caught on tape by a crew from the Spanish television company PVS, and the videotape showed that Kasparov’s fingers had left the knight.[100][101][102] Tournament director Carlos Falcon did not forfeit Kasparov when this evidence was made available to him.[103] As U.S. chess journalist Shelby Lyman pointed out, in the majority of sports “instant replays” do not overrule a referee’s original decision and chess is no exception.[101] At the time the video had not been publicly released, at the request of tournament sponsor Luis Rentero,[97] but it is now available on Youtube. At one point Polgár reportedly confronted Kasparov in the hotel bar, asking him, “How could you do this to me?”[104] Following this incident, Kasparov bluntly told an interviewer “… she just publicly said I was cheating. … I think a girl of her age should be taught some good manners before making such statements.”[105] Subsequently, Kasparov refused to speak to her for three years.[97] Kasparov told reporters that his conscience was clear, as he was not aware of his hand leaving the piece.[106] Although Polgár recovered by the end of the tournament, she went into a slump over the next six rounds, gaining only half a point.[96] The incident may also have had an effect on Kasparov, who turned out a subpar performance in the tournament.[101]


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21 thoughts on “YT Discussion w/ Mainland Chinese longkaili2904 why Liren’s list of role model players is stupid. ( 2023May )

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